From Dream to Reality – an interview with Pastor Danny Hyde

What follows is an interview with Pastor Danny Hyde of Oceanside United Reformed Church about his recent address to the annual NAPARC meeting, which encouraged them to pursue Reformed ecumenicity.  Pastor Hyde blogs at Meet the Puritans and is the author of numerous books on Reformed theology, such as Welcome to a Reformed Church.

1.  Thanks so much for your willingness to answer a few questions, Pastor Hyde.  First, could you tell us a little bit about yourself and how you became a Reformed minister?

Thank you for the opportunity, Zac. I am a born and bred native of SoCal. After being baptized in the Roman Church out of custom and superstition, my father was converted at Calvary Chapel Costa Mesa. I spent some time there as a young child in Sunday school, as well as in Mass during holidays with family. After the brokenness of my family finally came to a climax, I was finally converted in a Foursquare Church before heading off to college to play basketball. It was there that I became disillusioned with my Charismatic and Pentecostal experience. I went on a spiritual journey, investigating every major world religion before God found me at the right time, at the right place with the purity of the gospel in the Reformed confession. I went off to Westminster Seminary California with the goal of planting a Reformed church in an area of SoCal that had no Reformed church.

2.  You obviously have a lot of responsibilities within your congregation, so why did you consider it important to attend the NAPARC meeting in Chicago?

I am thankful that I am given time off from my labors here at OURC to speak to a wider audience. When I was asked to be the annual speaker at NAPARC I was humbled that I of all people would be asked to do that. As a total outsider to the alphabet soup known as the conservative Presbyterian and Reformed world, I have my own particular vantage point on the problems that plague us. And I pray that I also have a unique perspective on the way forward. So, it was important because I believe that in our unity we find our strength to be salt and light in our culture that I agreed.

3.  From an historical standpoint, why are there are so many different Reformed and Presbyterian denominations in America (I count twelve in NAPARC)?  Also, what keeps them apart?

The different denominations find their roots in distinct reformations in the sixteenth and seventeenth centuries. For example, the United Reformed Churches (URC) and Free Reformed Churches (FRC) are rooted in the Netherlands reformation. There are historical reasons why the mother churches of these denominations in the Netherlands were distinct, which led to their distinctness when they arrives in North America. Because these churches originally spoke Dutch, and were from the European continent, this meant there would be differences with Presbyterians in England and Scotland who spoke English. So when these people came to the New World and later United States, their circumstantial and well as doctrinal differences became distinct denominations.

4.  What was your message to the NAPARC delegates?

My message was a follow-up to Dr. W. Robert Godfrey’s address last year, A Reformed Dream.  It was entitled, “From Reformed Dream to Reformed Reality: The Problem and Possibility of Reformed Church Unity“.  In a word, the problem of unity is our sin, but the possibility is the power of the Holy Spirit.

[To read the manuscript of Pastor Hyde’s address, click here]

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So What’s This Reformed Stuff About?

[Encouraged by the prospect of a church plant on the west side of Cincinnati, UnalloyedGrace has begun a series of posts introducing the beliefs and practices that make Reformed churches unique within the Christian tradition.  Here’s the first installment.]

In Daniel R Hyde’s Welcome to a Reformed Church, Dr. Guy Prentiss Waters, in the foreword writes:

In the church of Jesus Christ, signs all around are pointing to renewed spiritual life. A younger generation of men and women has embraced Reformed theology in numbers unparalleled in recent memory. Web sites, conferences, publishing houses, and seminaries dedicated to promoting Reformed theology are flourishing. Most important, God is changing lives by the gospel of His grace… [click for more]

The baseball bat did it!

Question 6: Did God create man thus, wicked and perverse?

Answer: No, but God created man good and after His own image, that is, in righteousness and true holiness, that he might rightly know God his Creator, heartily love Him, and live with Him in eternal blessedness, to praise and glorify Him.

Blame-shifting is a part of life.  A father asks his son whether he broke the window with the baseball and the son replies, “No, the baseball bat did it.”  Our first line of defense after God’s Law teaches us of our sinful natures and actions is to, similarly, shift the blame to God, saying, “This is really your fault, God!  You made me in such a way that I’m unable to keep your law.  If you would have done a better job, I would be just as loving and good as your Law commands me to be.”

This would be an instance of refusing to recognize that the problem is within us, though.  By nature, God gave us everything we needed to keep the Law.  Our minds did not distort the knowledge of God and our hearts were not prone to hate Him.  We were even created in God’s very image, which includes positive righteousness and holiness (Eph. 4:24; Col. 3:10).  Our nature was fully equipped and disposed to obey and attain eternal life.  The problem is not with God’s success in creating us.

Photo credit to Nataraj Metz

Why the Law is “bad news”

Question 5: Can you keep all this [i.e., love God and neighbor] perfectly?

Answer: No, for I am prone to hate God and my neighbor

In and of itself God’s moral law (“love God and your neighbor”) is not a bad thing.  On the contrary, God’s law is holy, righteous, and good (Rom. 7:12).  The reason that the law is often called “the bad news” is because we are unable to keep it.  The problem is not in the law but in us; our obedience has never been complete and perfect.  When God’s law tells us of God’s demands and reveals our sin and misery (e.g., Rom. 3:9-20), it tells us in crystal clear terms what our conscience has already uttered (Rom. 1:32; 2:13-15) – we have violated the law of love.

Tragically, our condition is even worse than that we have failed to obey God’s moral law.  This disobedience is not a mere slip-up by people that are inherently good.  No, we have an inclination toward hate (Eph. 2:1-3).  Our nature is now twisted and corrupted and we worship created things (including ourselves) instead of the Creator (Rom. 1:18-23).  We are also prone to love ourselves to the detriment of our neighbors.  In the first sin events of Adam and Eve, we submitted ourselves to the instruction and command of the serpent.  Having been cast out of the Garden and still wandering “East of Eden”, we generally do his bidding, rejecting our Creator and our neighbor.

(To avoid misunderstanding: God’s “common grace” has prevented us from living as rebelliously as we could.  There is still a remnant of good in mankind, but the good we see never meets the standard that God originally set.  Societal “good” is never done with perfect love for the Creator and neighbor.)

Photo credit to Nataraj Metz

The Law is not the Gospel

Question 4: What does the law of God require of us?

Answer: Christ teaches us in sum, Matthew 22, “You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind. This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like it: You shall love your neighbor as yourself. On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets.”

Great confusion and spiritual distress will arise in a Christian’s life if the law and the gospel are not distinguished from one another.  The law teaches men and women of God’s demands for moral uprightness (Right now, I am speaking of “law” as God’s unchanging moral standard, not as the covenant that came down at Sinai.).  In short, the law commands perfect love – love for God and neighbor.  This love is written upon our hearts (Rom. 2:13-15) and must be fulfilled personally, perpetually, and perfectly.  To obtain a fuller sense of the law’s demands, one may turn to the Ten Commandments, which the catechism explains later on, or to the various commands in the Old and New Testament that call people to live an upright life.

Just think about the implications of this distinction. If the law relates to God just requirements, it does not speak of His grace.  Therefore, it does not inform us of the accomplishments of Jesus Christ and His gracious gifts of forgiveness and free righteousness.  Instead, the law enjoins that we personally achieve righteousness.  Some old sayings go like this: “What the law demands, the gospel gives.  The law says ‘do’ and the gospel says ‘done’.”  In short, if we make “love” or even “following Christ’s example” into the gospel, we have confused justice with mercy and misunderstood God’s glorious grace.

Photo credit to Nataraj Metz

To “hold fast the confession”

“Let us hold fast the confession of our hope without wavering, for he who promised is faithful.” (Heb. 10:23)

Theological liberalism has brought denominational giants down to their knees.  So much so, that the “Mainline” denominations would be unrecognizable to the ministers, elders, and members that founded them in the New World.  It would be like a civilian, who had fled her war-torn city, returning to see nothing but ruins and saying, “I don’t even recognize this place”.

Jesus Himself warned, “Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing but inwardly are ravenous wolves.” (Matt. 7:15)  Paul echoed Jesus, saying, “I know that after my departure fierce wolves will come in among you, not sparing the flock; and from among your own selves will arise men speaking twisted things, to draw away the disciples after them.” (Acts 20:29-30)

In that chapter of Acts, Paul not only warned the elders of the Ephesian church of impending danger, but he also charged them with protecting their church.  Given that Christ’s Church is larger than a single congregation and seeing the pattern that was given throughout the Old Testament (elders & Sanhedrin) and the New (cf. Acts 15), church leaders regularly meet together in order to protect their sheep.  They do more than this but not less, and NAPARC facilitates it because we find strength against sin in numbers.  “And though a man might prevail against one who is alone, two will withstand him – a threefold cord is not quickly broken.” (Eccl. 4:12)

The Knowledge of Misery

Question 3: From where do you know your misery?

Answer: From the Law of God.

To us, misery has the connotation of a subjective feeling, e.g., “I feel miserable today.”  In the Heidelberg, it refers to a state; therefore, a person may be entirely unaware that he or she is in that state.  The New Testament contains a story of a rich, young man that approached Jesus unaware that he was guilty and miserable (Matt. 19:16-26; Mk. 10:17-27; Luke 18:18-27).  Just like a person may imagine he is healthy until diagnosed by a doctor or a student may mistakenly think she has “aced” an exam before it is compared to the answer sheet, this young man imagined that his obedience was good enough to merit eternal life.  Jesus responded by quoting from God’s law, which is the standard of goodness and love.  He did it to make him aware that he had failed to perfectly and perpetually obey God.

Jesus’s response to this man is significant, because it shows us how we might avoid being similarly ignorant.  God’s law is where we must turn if we are to learn of our true state.  Surely, God’s law does more than convict (it also curbs sin and teaches the Christian how to live a grateful life toward God), but the conviction of disobedience is the all-important starting place.  The law reveals our Guilt.

Previous posts: What is a catechism?What’s in a question?The comfort of being owned, Guilt, Grace, & Gratitude

Photo credit to Nataraj Metz